He needs no introduction; after all, he has been a household name in Nigeria since 1970's. A reggae musician turned gospel and Pastor of House of Prayer, Ogba Lagos, Evangelist Sonny Okosuns, in this interview, takes a look at the Nigerian church, especially the Pentecostal churches and arrived at a conclusion that somethings are really wrong with the way we church these days in Nigeria. He also speaks on many other issues like women dress code,

problems he had with some people including pastors when he got born again, the power in praise, why and how he establish his church and… wait for it… why he would sing Islamic songs again. Excerpts from the interview conducted by Bola Adewara.

Evangelist, how do you see Pentecostalism in Nigeria today?
I'm not too impressed because the early people in the Pentecostalism have missed the point of Christianity. They now place so great an emphasis on prosperity rather than salvation. The time has come for us to preach eternal life. The time has come to check the book of Revelation and know what Jesus expects of us. Pentecostalism came to embolden us to stand by the authority of the scriptures not the doctrines of Catholicism or Protestantism.

Do you see anything that is specifically wrong with the focus on prosperity by the Pentecostal church?
Yes, I see some wrong approaches to spiritual matters. Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of needle than for rich men to enter the kingdom of God . There are different kinds of riches, what they preach in churches today is financial riches, which is different from the prosperity that the Bible says. The real prosperity talked about in the Bible is harmony of the body, spirit and soul. Though it is written that money answereth all things but it is not a statement of fact. Money does not bring spiritual edification. Jesus did not use microphone or computer before he preached. But he was profound because of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has been subordinated under the power of riches and rich men in the church and that is why we are not getting anywhere today.

Also, the bible says the kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Now, meat and drink are what money can buy. Money answers only to meat and drink but some things greater than that is righteousness, peace and joy which money can't buy. I am forcefully, grievously and seriously against all this emphasis on financial prosperity being preached in Pentecostal church.

It is perhaps difficult for some people to accept that music stars like you who have seen the best of the world could be genuinely born-again. How do you react to this?
Men from God are born. Men of God are made. At the beginning of my music career, my second single was titled God of Abraham, the third was Mercy of the Lord while the fourth was Help. In all my 25 secular albums, I had at least one gospel or religious track.

In 1974, I released Oh Jesus, which was an extended play. It was a massive hit. As I earlier said, I had known Jesus long ago, but the question of obedience to Him was another thing. So it was not difficult for me to surrender totally when the call came.

All the while in the secular music, I've been asking myself why has my life been followed by this great success. Every album I released was successful even without going to either Music school or any school. Many people don't know that I attended only elementary school, and now I've lectured in American universities. I asked myself how. Why? And I found out it's the power of the Holy Spirit and it's God-designed. I never know the Bible by going to any theological school or seminary but I now know the Bible very well and I preach it. That's how I know I come from God, and I have an intimate relationship with him.

The greatest opposition I had when I announced that I've given my life came from the pastors principally. Many of them said I now find solace in the gospel because I ran out of songs in the secular world. Many said I wanted to take advantage of the new surge in Pentecostalism and probably the money that comes with it. To be honest, this really turned me off. It hurt me as a person but it did not damage my belief in God. Again, because of my fame, some pastors would invite me to sing during service. I honoured their invitations but not for their money. If I was to do any show outside, it would fetch me almost half a million but here are pastors who'll give me N 1 000.00. I always sow it back into the churches, honestly and gladly, as a seed of faith having read one of Oral Roberts' books Seed Faith and I prayed to God to strengthen me.

I always pray to God that I'm not into gospel music because of money and so money can't send me out of it. I stayed in the faith with God. All the moneybag friends I had said I was singing rubbish and that when I become hungry I'll come back to secular music. But I went on recording gospel music and my fans changed. I did the first album, the second, third, fourth and fifth album without looking back. When they saw that I'm far away from their expectations, my friends came back to me. Some are Christians today.

As a man in the praise enterprise, what can you say is the power in praise?
Praise is more powerful than prayer, and I know that praise is the language in heaven. I know it because I'm a praise singer. A lot of things had happened to me just singing. For this, I keep on encouraging people who come to me for counseling to go on singing rather than sit down and brood in consternation. Praising will cancel the problem and give solution. Many of them return to give testimonies. If you don't know how to sing, God will supply what to sing. He'll give you a song to sing at every moment. It's different from kneeling down to pray. When you're praying, you're working but when praising, your spirit relaxes.

Let us look at the gospel music we have now. It's going through a kind of metamorphosis such that we have the gospel Reggae, Fuji , Senwele, Jazz, Waka, etc. How do you appreciate this?
I wonder what kind of music David was playing that led him to pull off his clothes. It's definitely not the hymnal stuff where you have someone coordinating the choir. David must have gone into some music with heavy beats.

These genre of music have spirits behind them. If reggae is brought into the church, what harmony do you expect?
Mode of melody is not the issue. It's the lyrics. If a Fuji-man has gospel lyrics and he goes on, when people criticize him, it's their problem. He is singing to God and you are not God. God is listening and enjoying it. Even if the music is awful in your ears but it comes straight from the musician's hearts, the angels will raise their wings. Man has bad ears but God has good ears! Look at it this way; if you speak in tongues, what language are you speaking? To people in the world, you're saying nonsense but to God, you are talking mysteries of life.

I have noticed that some of you music stars are now beginning to plant churches. Ebenezer Obey, J.A. Adelakun, Timi Oshukoya, you and of course some other musicians I know. Don't you think establishing churches is becoming a fad and fancy?
Establishing churches is not a prerogative of lawyers or the moneybags alone. So I don't think there is anything wrong for musicians to establish one. Personally, I had thought I'd be the last person to plant a church for I pity pastors so much. But when the call came, I was just possessed to plant one. I did not go out to put anything in place preparatory to planting a church. I am an evangelist who travels round the world to sing but when the church matter began, I asked myself what was I doing and I found out that it is not me doing it. It is God's own plan.

I don't know how I got the church together. I had thought of building a studio on that land but the spirit took me out that day to the place. I saw faeces of dogs, birds, etc. and cleared it. It then came to my mind to build on it a small place of worship for my family. I never told anybody. But I was surprised that around that time, Bishop David Oyedepo sent me about N 500,000.00, his assistant sent me about N 250,000.00 and when the place was almost completed, a woman walked in and said she would paint the place. Another woman gave one hundred chairs. Do you know I never solicited for a Kobo from anybody? I never told anybody what I was doing!

When I heard that Ebenezer Obey was born again, I remember that I laughed at him. To Okotie too, with who I was at EMI Recording Company, I laughed but today, I find out that God is behind it all.

How did their conversion strengthen you?
Well, I was wondering why they must abandon the glamour in musicianship for Jesus Christ. At a stage I began to ask myself why am I a musician?. Not until now that I got born again that I know why. Recently, I traveled to Togo and Benin Republic where I had opportunities of meeting their respective Heads of State. To each of them I gave a copy of the Holy Bible. When I met IBB, I also gave him one. It was then it became clear to me that God kept me in music so that I can be famous enough to witness Christ. Obey, Okotie, etc all strengthened me but they were restricted to a place. But I am an evangelist going to places.

Let me ask you questions that are controversial in the Christendom: women covering their heads in churches, women wearing trousers to churches. What is your opinion?
This issue is often a matter of culture. Some women in some countries cover all their bodies because of the weather while others dress skimpily. It depends on what your culture regards as men's wear and women's wear. It depends on what trousers and gowns are. Don't men wear gown?

They say women should cover their heads. If we read the bible carefully, it says men's heads are controlled by Christ while the women's heads, by their husbands, so if women don't cover their heads, it means they are dishonouring their husbands not God. But suppose the man says he likes his wife's hair uncovered? What about the women who are not married, and have no husband to cover their head for?

Is it proper for pastors to make it mandatory?
I don't think it is proper. That is sheer doctrine.

With your busy schedules as a professional, how do you cope with the church?
God is taking care of everything. I have pastors who take charge when I'm not around. The work I'm sent to do must be done so I'm really all over the place. The church members know that when I'm not around, I must be fully and well engaged elsewhere. I didn't restrict any pastor from doing what they have to do. I let the congregation know that if Evangelist Okosuns is not around, whoever is around should take charge, create his own identity and be accepted. Nobody should say because I'm not around they won't come to church. They have to get used to that pastor and get used to his own style.

Are you into full-time or part-time ministry?
There is nothing like part-time in the ministry of God. I'm a musician, evangelist and also pastor a church. Nothing like a part-time in the ministry.

In one of your albums, you sang an Islamic song and even in the video, your costume was Islamic. If you are called upon again, will you sing that song?

Oh! Yes, I shall. Don't be surprised. What the song in Arabic translates to is God is one , God is supreme and Mohammed is the messenger of God . This is true. But I will end the song by saying that Jesus is the Son of God . The Koran says Mohammed is a messenger but the Bible tells me that Jesus is the Son of God. If Jesus is Lord, then Mohammed is the messenger of Jesus. Does it not feel good that Mohammed is a messenger?

What message do you have for your friends in the secular world?
Each time I meet them, I ask if they've given their lives to Christ, some tell me to go away, and allow them get to where I got to before giving their lives. Some said I gave my life because I don belleful , they say they also want to be belleful before they give their lives.

You see these are statements I've said before and I pray God will give them time and discernment to know the truth.

So how actually “belleful” is Sonny Okosuns?
I'm belleful men! In the name of Jesus. I am okay I am satisfied. The belleful they talk about is fame and money. Well I thank God for the mercies and provisions but then I am still yearning to be more belleful spiritually.

How close or far are you to it?
We all sing Do something new in my life. I want to see God, I want to be with Jesus for ever and ever. I want to be among those whom He would tell when I was hungry, you gave me food, when I was thirsty, you gave me drink. This is my ultimate aim and I must search for it.

As long as we are still in the world, we can't be holy. We can only try to be righteous. To be righteous is different from being holy. That is why He says seek first the kingdom of God . So I'm seeking so that when I get it right, it will be marked for me.

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