"May God deliver us from Obasanjo, deliver us from IBB and give us a crop of righteous men who will steer the ship of this nation. "

Pastor Tunde Bakare of the Latter Rain Assembly, Ogba, Lagos, Nigeria says he is not a Babangida apologist, and has never met the man either. But only God, according to him, can stop former Nigerian Head of State who was disgraced out of power in 1992 Gen. Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida from becoming president again in 2007.

We just had census and the NPC chairman said the exercise was 95 percent successful. How do you react to this?
To be very honest with you, if anything convinces me that this government is very wasteful, it is the census.

Why?
Thank you, what is the essence of the national identity card that we did? In progressive nations, when everybody has an Identity card, all you do from that moment is to motivate and encourage your people towards registering their births and their deaths. With the record of births and deaths, you can add and subtract. That would have given us a fair assessment or idea of how many we are. What did that produce? Why are you duplicating efforts? And if you count 95 percent, how about the remaining five percent?

Some people complained vehemently about the exclusion of religion and ethnicity from the questionnaire. What's your view?
Ethnicity, religion doesn't bother me. I want to see nationalism. Some of my pastors are Ibos, some are from the north. North or South, East or West, God created us all. The fear they have is that they do not want to state the obvious that Christianity is gaining ground and there is no stopping it. I was a Muslim who became a Christian. And many more are turning to the Lord on daily basis. Outside that, these people just keep repeating the same thing in different forms.

But it is a practice all over the world for a nation to count itself every 10 years. For example, the United States (US) does it every 10 years.
The way you did it here and paralyse the economy for seven days? Why don't you give power to the states to count their own people, giving them the parameters to follow so that you do not do a

Seven-day-no-work-no­movement type of counting? Census has met me in other nations; it didn't paralyse their economy for even a day. These people are spendthrifts. They are wasteful. Very wasteful.

The suggestion that states should count people could be faulted.
Did Lagos State not count?

They counted alongside the federal enumerators.
So, why are you repeating?

But the pervasive fear is that the state governors, as politicians, could inflate figures.
Are the ones at the federal level not politicians? That is why it should be federal agencies within the state that will effect the counting. It doesn't have to be by the state agencies. It would be federal agencies that will do it state­by-state. This way, we can do this thing thoroughly, once and for all, without inconveniencing anybody and in a manner that is acceptable to all. Once parameters are set, the counting is no big deal.

On the immunity clause, the Mantu Committee is reported to have been over­ruled by the PDP, now saying that it will have to stay.
The undercurrent is what you cal bargaining. If you want us to support third term, grant us immunity and we will support you. Okay, all right. These people are balloting with the destiny of Nigerians. I don't know why you take them so serious.

They are our leaders.
Who are your leaders? Oh no! I like it when people say what they like. They always forget God. The people that forget God are playing with their own mercy. They shall be thrown into hell including the wicked.

Human memory is very fickle. If you think June 12 will stop him, some things that happened in his first term should have prevented Obasanjo from a second term. But human memory is very fickle.

What is really the hope of this country?
(Sings a Yoruba song... Nigeria will flourish again. God will heal our land restore us again, Nigeria will flourish again. Before Obasanjo came, right in the days of the military, while IBB was still dangling, God gave me a prophet­ic word. Do you know what He said in that word? It is preserved for posterity. I put it in a 12-pack album entitled, The Genesis of Nigeria 's Problem And The Revelation Of Our Peace, Unity And Progress.

"Here comes a tender plant from the side of the north, prepared before the foundation of the earth to steer Nigeria into her prophetic destiny. His two feet are deep in the blood of tyrants and in his right hand and left hand are swords of judgment and justice. He will wipe out the emirates and the traditional institutions. He will reduce the military to the level of errand boys. In his time, the economy of Nigeria will recover faster than that of Japan ." The mouth of the Lord has spoken it, the zeal of the Lord will accomplish it. I stand by that prophecy.

If the Lord has told me, it will come to pass. God has assured me, I will see it in my lifetime and I am patiently waiting to see it. Is there a New York , there was Old York, Is there a New Jersey, there was Old Jersey. There will be a new Nigeria in our lifetime.

You said out of two evils Nigerians should choose none. What is your reaction to General Babangida's declaration?
From the situation of things right now, IBB's declaration is fait accompli. Only one person can stop IBB, and that is God. Only God can stop him. Even the current president of Nigeria, with all respect, cannot stop him. Why? Because of written, unwritten, spoken and unspoken covenants.

The only time IBB came to the south after he left power was to go to Ota to invite this man, on behalf (whether truthfully or not) of the north and the power brokers, to come and be president. And he was among those who bankrolled him to the presidency. So, one good turn deserves another. Obasanjo's supporters will have to now sing a new song, Besides, he has a charisma that Obasanjo doesn't have, let us face it. He is friendly and warm. He knows how to disarm you and get his way. If you are talking about political dexterity, he has it. Only God can stop him.

Don't you think the June 12 issue is enough to stop him?
Human memory is very fickle. If you think June 12 will stop him, some things that happened in his first term should have prevented Obasanjo from a second term. But human memory is very fickle.

All IBB would have to do is to come forward and say that June 12 was not a unitary decision. Omoruyi has published something on that. If he would just come out and ask for a chance to make things right, you will still see these same people dancing and laughing in his support.

He probably is not as tight-fisted as Obasanjo and he would spread the manure; and before you know it, the people who take from him would stand for him. And he probably would have greater contributions than Obasanjo would have. I don't lose my sleep over that. Only God can stop him. I do not see anybody who can stop him.

What does the coming of IBB portend for the nation?
It cannot be worse than what Obasanjo portends for the nation. I don't see any difference Between the two; they are two sides of the same coin.

With the belief that IBB institutionalized corruption and we have an Obasanjo fighting corruption…
Let me say this: I don't know IBB. Never met him. I risked my life in prophesying against him when he was in power. So, don't think I've suddenly become an IBB apologist. I'm not. But I want to be very frank. The blunder has been made since 1999. Whatever gave room for Obasanjo coming to rule Nigeria will also give him room. He is a citizen. You have just said he is corrupt. Everybody says so. So, why can't we nail him?

Let me ask you this, do people change? Do people repent? Was Moses not a murderer who repented and led people out of Egypt ? Was Paul not a murderer who took warrant to arrest people and put them in chains? I do not know what has happened to him (IBB) He could have changed but don't think I am campaigning for him. I have told you, out two evils choose none. May God deliver us from Obasanjo, deliver us from IBB and give us a crop of righteous men who will steer the ship of this nation. But to be honest with you, except others will rise up again in this nation and do the NADECO thing once more, nothing natural can stop IBB.

Let me say this: I don't know IBB. Never met him. I risked my life in prophesying against him when he was in power. So, don't think I've suddenly become an IBB apologist. I'm not. But I want to be very frank. The blunder has been made since 1999. Whatever gave room for Obasanjo coming to rule Nigeria will also give him room.

With the human rights community almost gone?
Because those who are willing to lay down their lives have paid heavy prices. Beko is gone; Gani Fawehinmi is battling with health situation, because they have jailed him severally. Enahoro, who should be in retirement playing with his grandchildren, is now coming back to do all sorts of things. All the young people who were complaining then are the ones speaking for Obasanjo today'. These are men without honour, they are the chop-chop type of people.

Why are we not seeing many men of God speak up the way you do?
Not when you are sustained by the king. If you are looking for fame, if you are looking for position, if you are looking for private jets to take you to Aso Rock, if you are looking for the Order of the Federal Republic of Confusion, then you cannot talk; you will lose your voice. It didn't start yesterday.

It started when the church in Nigeria misplaced its priority, and we began to and we began to pursue prosperity, thinking that wealth will give us a voice. Now, we have the wealth by compromising the word of God and we have lost the voice. I am not the only one speaking in Nigeria . There are 7000 others who have not bowed to Baal, and for their sake God, will rise. If people are not sustained by those in power, they will invite them to Aso Rock.

Many years ago, I was invited to come and pray for the population logo during IBB's regime. I didn't go. There are some places you should not go because you will send wrong signals. Show me your friend and I will tell you who you are. Evil communication corrupts good manners. It is true that the Bible says we must pray for those in authority but it does not specify how. For some, we pray for them to stay there, for others we pray for them to go. We will cry unto God to have mercy upon us.

Let me be honest with you, I have seen the Bolanle Gbonigi's of this world, the Anglican bishops, the Catholic bishops, speaking more for the poor than the Pentecostal preachers. The greatest danger here is, if the church, the New Testament churches, the so-called modern or Pentecostal churches, if they think they can be secured islands of prosperity in a quicksand of poverty, when this thing will boomerang, you will see more destruction of churches. Because the building is not the church, it is righteousness that exalts a nation. We have 10 churches on a street, but there is no revival.

So, the challenge is more for the Pentecostals?
That's my opinion. I'm not against Pentecostals but in my opinion, they have done less talking.

If the president should invite you to the Villa to come and pray, would you go?
The president is not my boss. He is a citizen like me. I will need to check with my boss, God Almighty. I serve the Lord. Obasanjo's invitation does not command my respect. That he has built a chapel? What is the difference between him and Namaan, the leper, who carried sand from Jerusalem that he would go and build a place of worship but once a year, he would go to the temple of Dagon ? Is Obasanjo born-again or still in Ogboni? These are issues to be cleared first. My boss (God) will have to tell me to go. Nobody intimidates me. I fear only God.

What are the conditions necessary to make you honour such invitation?
Number one, God is asking me to go, I don't own myself. The evidence that he is asking me to go is that he has given me a word to speak when I get there. I am not a prayer contractor. Pastors can pray, only God can answer. Why waste my time?

As a lawyer, what is your assessment of the judiciary under this regime?
The man conquered every facet of our nation, including the judiciary. Only a few men are left in the judiciary to talk. Did you read the report of justice Esho panel? That the judiciary is corrupt? So what else do you expect?