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The first quality that attracted Pastor Deola Ojo to elifeonline.com was her beauty. Beauty? Yes, she is beautiful. Please admit that beauty gets people noticed easily. But beauty alone is not enduring enough, so we combed the bookshops for her books. Having read Give me a Spouse or I Die, we all agreed that this is beauty, brain and Christ. BBC. And so we decided to probe her mind in an interview setting. But before speaking with her, what about her husband? What caliber of man could date and marry this BBC? If only the deep can call to the deep, it means the man himself must be deeper. And then we went for the man and we were not disappointed. After the interview, we computed that Grace Family Church is really set for this 21st
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century. When Pastor Yinka Ojo's interview was published in our last edition, it elicited so many responses not on him alone but even on Deola, his wife whose interview had not been conducted. More than 156 mails from London, Americas, Ghana, South Africa, and of course Nigeria were received on her alone. Someone in Ivory Coast suggested she makes a French translation of her book Give me a Spouse or I die. God is taking this couple somewhere. All the questions in this interview were sent in by people who believe in the call of God on her life. Deola, call her Pastor D, speaks on women in ministry, lesbianism, the church, her marriage and matrimony in general. She of course gave kudos to her husband who has allowed her to actualise the gifts God deposited in her life. The interview was conducted by Bola Adewara recently.
Pastor D, the bulk of these questions were mailed in by people who have read your books and believe in the call of God in your life. Some of them want to use you as a model to fashion their lives, and perhaps, matrimony. A lady in Ibadan will like to know if you have ever had any disagreements with your husband to such an extent of exchanging words.
I don’t know what the person means by exchanging words. If by that you mean expressing different opinions on the same issues, yes. This is because as long as we are not robots who have no minds of their own and ability to reason, we will. So at times, there are differences of opinions. If a couple says they have not had differences in opinions, I will probably say they were married yesterday. However, if exchanging words means abusing one another, no. I don’t remember that ever happening between my husband and I, and I don’t think that can happen. But differences of opinion, yes.
How long have you been in the ministry?
Full time, 16 years. Since 1990.
What has been your biggest challenge?
Getting people to work according to God’s plan. Often, I see a big picture of the future for someone but it’s another thing if the person sees it and lives according to the plans of God. It’s like a parent telling a child not to go near fire because they know the consequences but the child, seeing a glowing, colorful thing still wants to go near and eventually gets burnt. So my biggest challenge is getting people to live straight lives according to the plans of God.
Three lesbians wrote in. First of all, have you ministered to lesbians before? In your encounter with them, what do you think led them to it?
I think some of them want to experience what its like to be one. To those who say they were born lesbians, I say no. People are not born as something. They get into it after birth, not from birth. So many people get into it to experiment. That is on the one hand.
Secondly, because parents are not involved enough with their children. This is the major factor. The average parents don’t sit down with their wards to probe their minds, ask what has happened in school today, what kind of friends they keep. Some don’t even have the time to exchange three sentences with their children. Parents don’t know who makes passes at their children. I will give an example.
There is a fourteen year-old whose father sent to the bank. Each time the child got there, there was a banker there who took the boy aside and began to fondle him. The child protested and immediately he got home, told his father of what happened. His father immediately followed him back to the bank. Now, the child was able to tell his father because the father had a relationship with him. For a child who has no relationship, who has no attention of his parents, he has nobody to tell and his rapport with the guy at the bank will continue.
There was a woman whose son was going to secondary school for the first time. She asked her husband to speak on sex education to the boy. The man refused, probably thinking the son is too young for that. The woman had to get another man to speak to the son so as to guide him if such things happen in school. Parents must be ready to have pep talk with their children all the time to guide them in times like this.
Do you do any follow up on cases like these?
Yes, certainly, we actually have a kind of discipleship programmes for them so that we don’t just counsel them and go away and the temptation will come again and they fall. I get involved with them all through just to make sure that they get born again after they leave lesbianism.
What is your success rate?
Very high.
A popular society lady here in Lagos, who is into lesbianism wrote in that she wants to get out but is afraid of the public knowing she have lived such lives. How do you advise her?
I think she still have to get out by summoning courage. There is no way she can get out and some people will not know. At least to help her out. But as long as she keeps it a secret, the tendency to continue is very high. She has to find the right pastor to confess to. If the pastor do not have enough time to help her out, the pastor must assign the right person to handle her case. I also suggest that the lady must be bold enough to tell someone in her family, someone matured enough who can handle the matter so that when her partner comes, the family member will be able to say no, not again, their sister is out of it.
Another lesbian confessed that she got into lesbianism out of fear of being hurt by men. Some said they have been hurt by men before and they want to shut men out of their lives by keeping women. Is this reasoning sound?
It is ratherlaughable. Such ladies should know that as long as we are humans, we are bound to hurt one another, whether a man or a woman. The fact that she wants to escape hurt by doing away with men for women rather exposes her to more hurt. If I know what we women could be often. It is funny to say because a guy has hurt me before, let me go out with a woman. The fact is life goes on. A lot of people have been hurt. I have seen women who said because a guy has hurt them before, they are not going into any other relationship. I tell them that that guy has done his own damage. If you hold on to that, and you keep your life at stand still, you are allowing the guy to do further damage. The only way, as it were, is to take a step forward and leave that behind.
So many people want to know how you resolve domestic quarrels between you and your husband. Many mails ask: who blinks first? Who comes down first? Who apologises first?
Does it matter? Ok, they person who is more saved! (laughter) I think the problem here is about personality. Here, we have different type of personalities: the peaceful phlegmatic, the perfect melancholic, popular sanguine and powerful choleric. The fact is that most marriages are made up of opposite personalities, and it is often the calmer personality that keeps apologizing but it does not mean the person apologising is not hurt.
There is a danger in this and that is why choleric finds out that one day, their spouse just stand up and say they are packing up the marriage. Our culture often makes us feel that once there is a problem at home, it is the woman who should apologise. But in truth, it does not work like that. Ideal relationship does not function on such traditional sentiments.
In your marriage, who apologizes first?
I think we are both quick to say sorry. We both apologise. In the early days of our marriage, we often stay awake till 3 am trying to resolve issues. We just stay awake to resolve it because we found out that disagreements come from lack of proper understanding of each other.
One thing about our marriage is that we have made up our minds that divorce is no option and so we resolved to talk. And I think when couples reach that level where they accept that divorce is out of the way, they better find ways of resolving their disagreements by talking to one another.
What no-go areas should couples erect for themselves to ensure their marriages work?
One, physical combat. Two, abusive words such as stupid, fool, etc. and in a situation when one is angry, the other should not be angry. Also, disagreements in the presence of families or third parties should be discouraged because when you both have forgotten the quarrel, the family members have not.
The most important no-go area is being in disagreement over night, which means that you resolve every issue before you go to bed so it does not get to the following day. Extra-marital relationship should be another no-go area. I say to people who say how many times my husband should offend me before I react. I say no number. When you say so so numbers, you are giving the man enough grounds to do such mistakes. Such mistakes should not happen at all because you are born-again.
With the kinds of books you have written, and the wisdom exhibited in them, one wonders what books you read.
All kinds of books by both local and international authors. I think I am so blessed because what takes some people days to read takes me hours. I read books by T.D Jakes, Kenneth Hagin and lots of Nigerian authors.
What challenges confronts you as a pastor and as a pastor wife?
Very interesting. To me, I look at both situations as the same. It becomes different if the woman is not called because her role is basically supportive and makes people see that she understands her husband. However, the challenge in being a pastor and a pastor’s wife is finding a balance. There is the tendency to be busy that you don’t attend to your role as a wife. You want to be by the side of our husband always to support him. Yet you are a pastor, you have a ministry to attend to. But for me, I have resolved that my first ministry is to be my husband’s wife and others take their queue. This lets me know that when I’m getting too busy as a pastor that there is a senior ministry to being a pastor.
What is your assessment of the contributions of pastors’ wives in Nigeria?
I believe we can do better. One thing I have noted is that its one thing for the pastors wife to desire to do something, and its another things for the husband to allow her. I thank God for the kind of husband He gave me. How many men can be like him? He does not restrict my ministrations within and outside the country. I give God that glory everyday for giving me such a man who allows me to achieve the potentials the Lord gave me.
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I thank God for the kind of husband He gave me. How many men can be like him? He does not restrict my ministrations within and outside the country. I give God that glory everyday for giving me such a man who allows me to achieve the potentials the Lord gave me. |
The challenge some other women have is that they don’t have the liberty to travel or do things in church. One pastor told me haughtily day that he doesn’t allow his wife many roles in the church. How do you then see pastors wives having their own women ministries, gather women to do things for the Lord in the church? I don’t want to say we are not doing anything, but I think if the husbands allow their wives, we can do better things in the church.
What is your assessment of the quality of sermons from our churches?
I am not satisfied at all. But I hasten to say that the problems of the shepherds are the flocks. The average church member does not want doctrine because when you are teaching it, he is asleep. When he knows you will preach it, he will not come to church. All the present congregation want is “God will bless you” “By next minute, you will be a millionaire” “God will give you a jeep when you get home”
These days, so many pastors will not tell you the processes underpinning such supernatural blessings and that is why so many congregations get disappointed when they don’t get the jeep and leave churches. Many of such Christians or church goers forget quickly that the pastor who prayed such prayers for you last week, have you become the millionaire he spoke about?
However, this should not be an excuse for such pastors to say I give them what hey want. In our churches, how many of them read their bibles? How many of them pray for their pastors? They believe that it is the pastors’ duty to pray for them because ‘he is an anointed that needs no prayer”
The congregation should help their pastors find their balance. If pastors know that the members will leave if they are not adequate, do you think pastors will wallow in their inadequacies? The problems of the pastors are the flocks.
Is marriage a must?
No. As a matter of fact, some people are not supposed to marry. The bible talks of the Eunuchs. If a man sees a woman and he is getting interested, he is not an Eunuch. I want to believe that there is a tiny fraction of our people who have the grace of not getting interested in the opposite sex. But I think those who want to get married should in the proper way.
What led you to write your popular book, Give me a spouse or I die?
I have a passion to make people happy. I like to lift people’s spirits. When I look at the numbers of men and women who are single and so depressed, I feel sorry. When I look at those people, I just feel like putting a smile on their faces by solving the problems enunciated in the book.
Essentially, the idea of writing books came when I was in the university, in charge of what we called School of the Word. We had a manual, and because I was the Principal of the school, I had to write. So I think the idea began from there. Of course, seeing a few other people who had written books also encouraged me to put down my thoughts in book form.
How will you speak to a lady who is still single at - say age 40?
I will sit her down and anaylse the situations to her. I will let her realize that in God’s dictionary, there is nothing like impossible or its too late. I will tell her that I have seen women who got married for the first time at age 50, some of them Nigerians. But the fact is that such ladies often get so unrealistic in some of their expectations. The ladies in her 40s should know that she stands the chance of marrying a widower or something. She may even marry a younger person, who is perhaps matured in the way he sees issues. So I will tell her not to give up.
I will tell her to open up on what she is doing wrongly. I can tell you what an average lady in such situations could do: She would not attend weddings, family functions or get together because she does not want people to ask her of her husband or children. Unknown to these ladies, when people ask and are told that she is still single, only then will men who are still single or widowers can know of them and go for them.
"... the challenge in being a pastor and a pastor’s wife is finding a balance. There is the tendency to be busy that you don’t attend to your role as a wife. You want to be by the side of our husband always to support him. Yet you are a pastor, you have a ministry to attend to. But for me, I have resolved that my first ministry is to be my husband’s wife and others take their queue.
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Someone asked that what conditions did your husband fulfilled before you agreed to marry him?
Well, we met while in the University and at a campus fellowship we were both attending. He was an assistant pastor then and I was teaching some classes. Ours was not that kind of spark immediately we saw each other. There was a day he came to my female hall of residence at University of Ibadan. He was downstairs and I was at the verandah upstairs with some female friends. He had one of the books of T.L. Osborne in his hands. He opened it to the page containing the pictures of T. L Osborne and his wife and he called me and said “Deola, look at this picture. What I saw was him and I doing the work of God but he later said that was not what he had in mind. I looked at the picture and forgot about that. Much later, when he came to propose to me, I told him I was not ready. But to get a yes from me, he had to promise to marry me.
What is your background like?
My father, Chief Adeoye Adisa, a successful lawyer, 88 years old now, comes from Ibadan Oyo State. I come from a monogamous home and a Christian family. I attended Sacred Heart Private School and St Anne for my post primary education in Ibadan. Later, I attended the University of Ibadan. I got saved while I was in school through my brothers who spoke to me and took me to revivals where we prayed and started speaking in tongues. But there was no follow up which led me back to the world.
I started attending parties even when only me had to go there and watch people dance at the invitation of friends. But I was jolted back to Christ when, at a party, a fight broke out and a guy was stabbed. There was blood all over the place and people running helter-skelter. I had not seen a thing like that all my life because coming from a wealthy home, we were not exposed to that kind of life. That gory experience jolted me back to Christ. When I got to the University, my life changed and I returned to Christ, living a devoted life all over again.
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