As a senior police officer, he started fellowhsipping with Christians at his residence. He was one of the few officers who gave the Nigerian Police Force a credible image. When he left the force as a Deputy Inspector General of Police, it took him no time to transform into a pastor and started up a church in Lagos Nigeria. Today, he is an Archbishop, respected and consulted from far and near on the mind of God. In this interview conducted by Julius Adegunna, Publisher of PTL, a Nigerian gospel publication, Omeben, who turned 70 recently opened up on so many issues including the much acclaimed third term bid of President Olusegun Obasanjo. Excerpts.

Congratulations on your seventy years birthday, now as a senior member of the nation, looking back what does it mean to you?
Looking back, one has the reasons to thank God for sustaining me right from the day one up till the day I became 70, it is the doing of the Lord, I never knew that there would be a day of this nature in my life, Now that it has come I give all the praise to God for making it happen, and after seventy I am in the hand of God again He knows when my journey will end. He knows what I should do to give glory to His name. My prayer is that God will see me as His properly. As an expensive vessel in His hand for the years that I will have to spend here on earth.

We know your life has been eventful, what were those things that make it eventful to you? In your person, your career and the ministry?
There are many things I have to thank God for. One, my father did not leave up to seventy years. So for me to come to the age of seventy, and I am above it now. I have to give special thanks to God because I have broken a jinx in my family. We earlier had it that we had a short life span but God has shown me that really He can do what He plans.

Then in the 70 years I had been on earth, it has been a very exciting experience. I spent over 30 years in the Police Force without any blemish, it wasn't my doing, it was not that I was a very good police officer, it is because I have God on my side who has been directing me as to what I should do at every stage and it has been wonderful. There are people who have been more wonderful than myself, we joined the same profession with higher degrees and yet they ended their lives the way people would not be proud to mention. But in my own case it was not like that, I have cause to thank God for making me to cross the bar to this side if life.

As a member of the club of the senior citizens, still looking into Nigeria you must have taken your time to look into the country. What is the problem with Nigeria ?
Nigeria really is a beautiful country, but fortunately or unfortunately, Nigeria has changed, not in terms of size, but in terms of the attitude of us Nigerians, we have changed. Our priorities have changed, our politics have changed, and then those of us who are older have started to ask ourselves one simple question. Is this the Nigeria that we still know? Is this the Nigeria that where in those days if you put your things outside, you would come and find them? Is this the Nigeria that we did not know who was Hausa, who was Ibo who was Benin, who was Yoruba, that everybody just moved as a family? What had happened that we now amplified the things that divide us. What is really happening that we don't even have the feeling to say this must definitely have an end? That we should live in a way that brought us glory in the past. It is heart rendering. It breaks my heart when I think about it.

What is more surprising is that the young ones we have these days enjoy what is happening because they have got used to the system, they never experienced what I am taking about. When I talk of peace and harmony, they don't know what it means because they are used to violence. But we need to go back to our roots, so that the peace is Nigeria can come back. So that the assassination, the murder cases, the violent crime everywhere should not be. Those are the things that seem to make us cry. We are sad.

From your constituency, I mean from where you are coming from, some of the nation's problem is partly blamed on the police, do you have any comments concerning this?
I could not have wanted to speak on the Police because I have spoken a lot about the police, what I need to reemphasize is that every nation has the police it wants. The Police Force in Nigeria is the kind of police Nigeria wants. I say they are doing those things Nigerians want them to do. I cannot say further.

You have sometimes said in the past that the Nigerian police is overloaded with activities that are not meant for them. Is this part of the problem?
These are not the problems. These were even there during our own days, we had policemen who had to go and march at court premises, they go to publicize the court rather than publicizing the police, we have policemen who are orderlies, all these are not the problems. The problem with the police I will just mention one of them, the way they are being used by the authority to further their own end, that is the sickening side of it. It wasn't like that in those days.

"... I could not have wanted to speak on the Police because I have spoken a lot about the police, what I need to reemphasize is that every nation has the police it wants. The Police Force in Nigeria is the kind of police Nigeria wants. I say they are doing those things Nigerians want them to do. I cannot say further."

I remember in those days, when there were riots in the old western region I was there, we didn't have an occasion where the commissioner of police left his place to come to Western House of Assembly even to the House of Parliament to come and do any­thing, all he needed to do was to give instruction, but today when we have Inspector General (IG), Deputy Inspector General (DIG), Assistant Inspector General (AIG) as political officers, it is a shame. The police has lost its glory in Nigeria. For an IG, DIG, AIG and Commissioner of Police running after Governor. No, it's sickening. Now everyone wants to be a politician all because they want to get Ghana Must Go, it is a shame of a nation let us leave it there.

Now looking into where we are and where we have found ourselves, as an elder states person what is the way out of the problem?
The way out, to my mind is let us all determine to speak the truth that we know, let us all determine to put the country first, let us as all know that this rat race which we are all involved in will come to an end. The moment we know that no one will carry his one million pound, the million dollar, the million naira to the grave, that moment, the spirit of sanity will prevail.

Just last week in Benin, Edo State, a man of God passed away and the wife was crying, the child that was two years plus was telling the mother who was crying that 'Mama, don't cry. The woman replied, 'don't you know that Daddy had gone away, that he had traveled?' The child then asked if Daddy had traveled why did he not go away with his bible, why did he not go with his eye glasses, and that Daddy left his clothes, and why did he leave all these things?

When I listened to these things, and the child asking his mother this question, something came on me, that when even we pass away, no one will take away any of these things. The money the pounds and dollars they all keep abroad, all these political office holders who are keeping all these money they don't know that they are not going to take anything to the grave. Rather let them use the money here in the way it would benefit Nigerians. Let them build hospitals, with their ill-gotten money; let them build highways, rather than putting the money in London and in America. Let them invest this money on projects, let them build highways and be collecting tolls, let them build bridges, let them build markets. Let them buy and introduce rail transportation system. Then nobody would care how they get the money, but in a situation of ruining the nation because they have the opportunity of holding political office, it is a shame. What they are doing is to put a curse upon them­selves, the curse that cannot be washed away.

We know you have been enjoying your retirement. How will you like to advice your colleagues who are retired but not tired. What can they do to have a peaceful retired life?
After retirement some go into politics, I and don't have anything against them provided the politics they play is a clean one, politics that bring development to where they come from, politics that bring glory to Nigeria, but if they are in politics because they want to open banks, because they want to run business A, business B or business C so that their children, grand children and great, great grand children will never suffer, let them know that suffering is awaiting their grand children because the money they had such laboured for, when it is time to spend them the money will be scattered. Because they don't know the root. If they are in politics to keep body and soul together that is beautiful but above everything let conscience be their guide.

After seeing it all, you came back to the altar of God, why and how did it happen?
I did not come to the altar of God after I had seen it all, God called me while I was in the service and since then I did not keep my mouth shut, I have been praising Him. I have been worshipping Him, I've built churches for Him while still in service, and I have won souls for Him while still in service. To retire now has given me a better opportunity to do what God has called me to do, and it's been a pleasure to be in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then some of the problems in the nation are traced to the church, some people believe the church leaders are not telling the truth as it is for the political leaders to know, and that the nation is not clean in spite of the increasing number of churches.
I thank God for the Church. When God decides that there should be the Church He has one single thing in mind that the church should be able to monitor, that the Church should be able to talk the mind of God to the nation, but unfortunately what the Church stood for in the beginning, is not what most of the churches stand for today.

Some are in the Church today because of how much money they can make. I have heard of some people, pastors, they would prefer to say what will make the people happy rather than what will make the Lord happy. They would want to satisfy the politicians, they will like to make the politicians feel that they are in the way of the Lord, the politicians will in turn bless them. They do it so that politicians can come to their churches with open cheques and Ghana Must Go. It makes the messages in these churches change.

Really this is one of the problems we are having in the nation. People don't want to say what God says. Pastors don't want to be abused. What's wrong with being abused, they abused Jesus, they are afraid that the politicians would not come again. The birds of the air who provides for them? God provides for those who believe and trust Him. My plea to my colleagues who are in the ministry is to let us join hands to pray for this land, let us all learn to speak what God has asked us to speak, and not to say those things that will bring us fast naira into our pockets, because we have spoken to the plea­sure of the leaders. When we do that we are promoting the work of the devil which' should not be.

Now one issue that is discussed everywhere is the possible extension of president Obasanjo's tenure. What is your comment on this?
Whether it is a rumour or what ever they call it, I think, it is a bad dream. I don't think Mr. President will ever think of such a thing. I will like to believe that only politicians are trying to think out something for him because if it materializes they believe they will have extra gains to themselves. Mr. President should not lend his ears to them because it will be the worst thing that can ever happen to this land. It is an aberration that this country is short of leaders. Nigeria is not short of leaders, we have leaders in this country. Leaders that are committed to the cause of what we call Nigeria, not to the cause of political parties so no political leaders should come and say he alone is to lead. Before he came where were we? So let this bad dream disappear from the mind of the dreamers.

"... God is calling us to repent from the politics of blood and money. When they shed blood because they want to occupy position, they have defiled the warning of God. For those who may I talk about false prophets, then at the end they will know who a false prophet is..."

Now as an Archbishop, how do you use your new influence in your new office?
In the new office which I have found myself as an archbishop, may God give me the strength and the needed courage to declare always those things that are good, to say they are good; those things that are bad, to give me the courage to say they are bad; and bad things that seem sweet, God would not al­low me to be partaker of it. A lot of people would like to say I have a lot to offer but I want to say I don't have anything to offer but God has a lot to offer through me.

My experience in the past, my experience on the pulpit I have them to give younger pastors, younger Bishops in the land, even outside this country. If there are errors which I found, I will not even hesitate to tell them that although you are working this way, and you have been doing it for sometime. Please know that it is wrong,' Let us tell our brothers that we can portray a better image of the church to the outside world, but if we are not living a godly life we cannot convince those people outside that what we are doing is right. I will like to let the people to know that my life is the best Bible they can read. If they read me well they can get what they can get in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation but if my life is not being portrayed, then I've told the people that Christ is a liar.

Finally, I may not at this stage but talk about something Nigerians are talking about, I find that there is a lot of hullabaloo over the Governor of Bayelsa State Alamieyeseigha. People are saying he had disgraced Nigeria, people are saying that he had disgraced Bayelsa State, do you know how I feel it, it is a true statement, but before you can stone this man to death we must be able to establish that no other Governor, or Mr. President are not holding currency in their sprawling residences in America, in London, that they don't have money outside the country, that they don't keep foreign accounts, let this man from Bayelsa State be executed. But if they have money, let this man be treated like any other Nigerians. He should not be singled out.

Recently I was sad when I heard about governor Dariye of Plateau State, when I heard that the party he belonged to returned the 90 million Naira he donated to the party when the relationship was good. But we can ask, did they realize this? Was he the only one who donated money to' their party? At that time. Is it because he has run foul of the party that they are now thinking of returning his money? They should bring out the registers of all that contributed; if not it could be said that they are only doing selective, judgment which will not lead Nigeria anywhere. I expect every man of integrity to visit that issue, when Dariye made that donation was he the only one that donated? They should visit the issue; EFCC must know all those that donated, including the governors and what were the sources of their donations.

Lastly, the nation should know that God is sounding a warning to the world. In America the Tsunamis came, some people saw it as a mere geographical expression. All these happen to let the world know that we are not living right. And the people of Africa and Nigeria have seen it all.

We Africans were brought up by the white. We are not better, God is telling us that we Africans, we the developing countries, we are going to feel it, God is now saying that, 'I am not going to send those calamities to you, I am going to send blood, I am going to send war. There is going to be blood, shed in Africa. For those that are ready to listen to the voice of God, God is calling the nation to repentance. God is asking us to repent for the consequence will be bloodshed.

God is calling us to repent from the politics of blood and money. When they shed blood because they want to occupy position, they have defiled the warning of God. For those who may I talk about false prophets, then at the end they will know who a false prophet is. God is sound a warning that if those in authorities want to stay there permanently, there will be bloodshed in the land; I pray the angels don't come to do what they are sent to do.

Culled

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