In this interview, culled from TheNews, Pastor T.B. Joshua, popularly called the man in the synagogue responds to Pastor Chris Okotie's allegations.

How did the Synagogue begin?
A: Since God is the founder, I am just being used. So you should expect anything from God growing from strength to strength. With God all things are possible.

Q: Apostle Babalola of C.A.C got his call when he was driving a tractor. What were you doing when you sensed you were to work for God?
A: I am not good at discussing the past because it is Satan that discusses the past. Jesus discusses the future. According to the Bible, when Jesus enters our body, he cleans the past and gives birth to a new season.

Q: We can see some white people around... Is your church affiliated to a foreign body?
A: By the grace of God, we have about 500 of them here from various countries: America, Germany, Austria, etc. They come, spend some time and go and another set comes. Right now we have 500 around and 10 people (whites) are working with us here. There are evangelists under the ministry. We don't have any affiliation. But they are trained here to become evangelists. By the time they finish their training, they will go back. You can see them around. This is so, because the church is for all nations. For now we don't have branches. When you call a church ‘Church of All Nations', it must meet the standard of all nations before you can talk of standard. I think God is a God of orderliness. So a church of all nations must have the presence of all nations. The followers should consist of all nations.

Q: What is the cause of the conflict between you and Pastor Chris Okotie? What is your problem with him?
A: You know, I told you I don't want to go personal. I don't want to mention his name. To me it is not Christ-like. We don't have any conflict, why should I fight him? I don't know him. We don't have any disagreement. So, I don't know why he is fighting me. I have never met him before. I don't listen to unjust things. The Bible says we should be careful of what we hear because what we hear can influence us. When I listen to or watch any unsavoury news item or clip I quickly switch off the tv or radio set, because I don't want to be polluted.

Q: What is your problem with Primate Olabayo of the Evangelical Church of Yahweh? Some people rumoured that you inflicted Olabayo with stroke which nearly killed him. Is this true?
A: I have not met him before. We have never had any encounter with each other. My mission is not to kill or destroy. How can you attribute things of Satan to me? So don't mention Olabayo name because, I don't want to be personal. Destruction is not my mission. My mission is to set people free from sin

Q: Back to Pastor Okotie. Why do you think he attacked you? Is it hatred or jealousy?
A: I don't think he hates me or he is jealous of me. You can only hate somebody you have something against. I don't think anybody hates me or anybody is jealous of me. This is a lie. Life is demanding and people also are demanding. In a situation where there are such demands, there is bound to be inferiority or superiority complex.

Q: Many people say your own mode of healing is unique. How did it originate?
A: You said it is unique. I do not need to boast of what I'm doing for God. But I will boast of what God does in my life. I think it is the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit comes into our lives, it teaches us something unique. It does not teach us to copy because it is purely divine and the human mind cannot explain it. I cannot do anything unique except with the intervention of the Holy Spirit. When you look at the Apostles, you will discover that many had their own unique ways too. Moses used rod, Jesus sometimes tapped and sometimes laid hands on people's head and at times, he stretched out his hands.

Q: What is your problem with the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria which has refused to admit you as a member?
A: What is Pentecost? Pentecost is a holy place. Holy Spirit comes at Pentecost. Are you saying I do not belong to the Holy Place ? When the day of Pentecost came, the Apostles were waiting and praying expectantly for the promise of the Father. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to clothe the apostles with power from on high. At the same time, he immersed their spirits in the Holy Spirit, thus giving power to them to witness the living Jesus.

Q: Why does your ministry attract controversies? A: You used the .word 'unique' yourself. Something unique always brings controversy. If it is not unique, somebody will say, oh!, he is doing the same thing others are doing. Nobody will come to you or bother about you if you are doing the same thing others are doing.

Q: Do you believe that there are fake pastors?
A: Anything that is good must have an opposite. We have what is good and what is bad, Kingdom of Heaven and kingdom of Satan . There is no neutral position, it is either you belong to God or to Satan.

Q: In pastoral history, who is your role model?
A: My goal is to be like Jesus. I believe the Holy Spirit will guide and help me because He is my helper and comforter.

Q: So Jesus is your role model?
A: Is it not possible?

Q: Why do some people criticise you?
A: You know yourself more than people really know you. What people say about you doesn't really matter, what matters is what you believe about yourself.

Q: Some critics doubt your miraculous power. They say you are using occultic power. What do you have to say about this?
A: You too can perform miracles. When you sleep and wake up, it is a miracle. When you pray and your prayer is answered, it is a miracle. But because your miracle is little, you fail to recognise it. Everything big starts little. My critics and accusers fail to appreciate even the blessings of God in their lives. They fail to realise that everything big starts little.

We should first appreciate the little before we think of receiving greater ones. Everybody should first appreciate the miracle of sleeping and waking up and say thank you Jesus. After that they may now expect big ones. We appreciate the miracle of sleeping and waking in this church.

If you intend to speak, think deeply first before you utter anything. You should utter what is just, pure and lovely. To know God's presence is to know God's power. When you mention miracle you are referring to God.

Q: A lot has been said about Pastor Chris Oyakhilome's recent visit to your church. Is it really true that you blessed him by laying your hand on his head? What other things transpired during his visit?
A: My answer is: the Bible says, two true pastors are better than one.

When he visited you?
A: Uh! Two pastors are better than one pastor and two believers are better than one. If the gentlemen are men of God, I think there is nothing wrong for the two to come together. If one is possessed, the other can exorcise the demon in him, because the Bible says, "greater is the one in me than the one in the world". So when two men of God come together, it is always better than one.

Q: Is it true that he comes to your church always?
A: If a man of God comes to my church, there is nothing wrong in it. That is just it.

Q: You are being labelled as the most controversial pastor in Nigeria . Why is this so?
A: To be like Jesus is my goal. We trust the Holy Spirit. He is our guide, helper and Comforter. When you look at Jesus, he was controversial. He was accused of being filled with devils. He cast out demons. He was called King of Beelzebub. Many queried the source of His power and teaching? But Jesus is a symbol of love and love is the greatest Christian virtue. And love is the real measure of spirituality. Jesus feels what you feel and is concerned about you. He gets hurt when people are hurt. This could not allow Jesus to criticise and condemn. He was in all points tempted like us. Yet he did not sin. How then can we be angry without sinning? We can be angry without sinning when we leave our accusers and critics to God.

Q: How will you react to the recent utterances of Pastor Chris Okotie of the Household of God on your person?
A: My mission is more paramount to me than that. My mission is to give abundant life and in the process of giving this abundant life, I must always say things that are lovely and just, not condemnation or pointing fingers. My mission is to say things that are just and admirable. I will not leave my mission and take on another mission.

Q: Would you say Okotie is jealous of your ministry or success?
A: Uh! You know that life is demanding and people are demanding too. In a situation of such demands, there is bound to be inferiority or superiority complex. Jesus was also attacked. He was said to be the king of demons. They accused him of eating with the devil and he continued casting out demons. We should not pay attention to that, because that is not my mission. I can't use the same mouth that I bless people with to say "you are finished." A man's mouth can only serve one purpose, negative or positive. I prefer the positive.

Q: Have you ever met Pastor Chris Okotie?
A: I don't know the gentleman. I don't know him and I have nothing against him. If he has anything against me, it is over to him but I have nothing against him and I can never have anything against him. So I learn to love everyone because love is the greatest Christian virtue and it is the real nature of spirituality. If you want to know God, you must love yourself and others. So God is love

Q: There is this allegation that during ministration, you point a finger called "finger of God."
A: If you have ever watched my ministration you will see I stretch my hand. You know God has no hand but he uses our hand to do His work. So God has no fingers, mouth or legs but He uses ours to perform and to tell people about Himself. God wants to use my faculty to express Himself to them. If I don't come out, they will go home disappointed.

Q: Pastor Okotie accused you of using Shamanism...
A: Anything outside the Bible I'm not interested in. I am not interested in anything outside the Bible and salvation. The God we worship speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. So I don't have interest in all these words outside the Bible.

Q: Could the calibre of people that at­tend your church elicit such intense envy or hatred?
A: The issue of personality does not arise. What matters is how many souls or lives you save for the Kingdom of God . In the Kingdom of God , we are all equal.

Q: President Frederick Chiluba was here. Was it for healing or salvation? A: He was not just here for miracle but for salvation.

Q: Some people accused you of using fake doctors' reports to certify some AIDS patients as cured.
A: How can that be? I mean what about those who have cancer? What of the white people? Have I colluded with the people from Japan and other countries? 5000 of them are here. Have I colluded with them? I have never travelled outside the country. I have many things to do. Am I to live about 500 white men here in Nigeria and travel out?

Q: What is your problem with Okotie and other critics?
A: To answer the question, let me read to you what I said in our publication. The Synagogue Voice. When the Synagogue Church of All Nations came into being in Lagos , Nigeria , it was greeted with high tempers, suspicion bordering on hatred, unexplained antagonism, physical and psychic attacks. Ironically, in the face of this mass attack, salvation, miracles, healing and all of God's blessings abound. I keep doing good, choosing not to reply my accusers, even at the highest point of provocation and concerted attacks. I simply choose to pray for them. They keep increasing in number, just as my critics get more sophisticated in their methods and instruments of attack.

So, I have learnt to give myself to prayer. When people persecute, accuse and vilify me in spite of all I do, I do not despair. I only remember Christ's rejection. People always fight what they do not understand. Throughout human history, men of God have had their names soiled and stained. .

Q: It is good to turn the other cheek but why do Okotie and other critics attack you?
A: Once again, permit me to read to you from The Synagogue Voice. Mention the name Synagogue and you would have threatened the peace of many. Man by his very nature is wont to fight what he does not understand.

What he does not understand, he fears. What he fears he hates, and what he hates, he seeks to destroy. Unfortunately, the understanding of this philosophy eludes those who are already prejudiced. The desire to destroy what we hate is often expressed in diverse ways. It could be campaigns of calumny, misrepresentation, mudslinging and worse still, outright physical attacks. This explains the barrage of acrimonious criticisms, angry complaints and outright dismissals being expressed against the good works God is doing in the Synagogue Church of All Nations today, just as it was in the beginning.

Above all, suffice it to state that our critics will fight relentlessly to make sure that they do not leave our reputation untarnished.

Q: You mean your critics will always want to tarnish your image?
A: Yes

Q: What message do you have for Christians?
A: I want them to know that God uses our faculties and they should allow Him to use them. And if they see somebody who is using his for God's work, they should accept him and not be jealous of him.

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