Apostle Anselm Madubuko is the General Overseer of Revival Assembly Church. He is also the president of New Anointing World Outreach (NAWO). Madubuko who turns 50 years old July 25, 2008, is also author of many books. In this chat, he bares it all on his life, times and ministry. Excerpts culled from the Gospel ForeRunner.

Could you please let us into profiles of your life, times and ministry.
Yes I thank God because looking back I can see the hand of God upon my life. My father was registrar of college of technology Enugu. And that was the environment we grew up. That was before the war. Very quiet life we lived in GRA .In the midst of white people. Then it was called Government Technical Institute (GTI) and during the war we went back to my village.

We were in my village throughout the war. After the war, we went back to Enugu.It was now college of Technology. So he went back to where he was working. Later it became IMT.And he was still there as the registrar of IMT and after that he came back to the ministry of education. He retired as a chief inspector of Education.
So I had a relatively very sweet childhood. My parents were very nice people. I did not know anything like suffering. I attended government secondary school Afikpo. I left secondary school I think in 1975. That was when I did my WAEC. I was 17 then. Then in 1976, when I was 18, I went to university of Nigeria, Enugu campus, where I gained admission to study architecture. It took me six years because that is what it takes. In 1982 I graduated and came to Lagos.
It was in the university that I matured. I began to understand life at 18. When I was in my first year and at age 20, I ran for an election on campus. I remembered it so clearly I defeated an older student (laughs) to become the director of socials. At 20, I was the director of socials in Enugu campus.

(Cuts in) It means you have been dealing with people all your life?
APOSTLE: Yes. I did not know God was preparing me for the ultimate thing.
And some how I got into Radio Nigeria as a part time presenter. I was coming to school and doing the radio programme. My school days were very interesting. I had a car on campus. Everything was okay then. At 21, I was initiated into the lodge. Because my father was a lodge member and being his first son, I had to be initiated into the lodge. I got into the lodge and I also got into the pirate confraternity. In my sixth year, I became the capon. That is the head.

How were you drafted into the Pirate Confraternity?
It was a bad club. I was looking for a bad club. Because when I was getting into the university, the devil is a wicked man, my father called me, he said please son you are going to the university bla bla bla, there are many societies in the university and there are many dignified ones. But please do not join the pirate (laughs) so when I entered the school I began to look for the pirates. Like I said I became the capon until I left the university. In 1982 I came to Lagos and another phase of my life started as I was now left alone. I remember I was looking for a job as an architect to do my youth service.
I was posted to one of the northern states, I cannot remember whether Yola or somewhere for my youth service. But I did not want to go to the north. One of my aunties who then was a FEDECO commissioner worked my transfer to Lagos. One day I was working across an architect office called Tom Ikimi Design Company. I did not know anybody so I said to the man, I just finished school, I am looking for a place to serve. And he said come and serve here, that was how I got my job. I started working with Tom Ikimi. I did my youth service with him. He employed me after my youth service. It was there in1983, August 4 that I got born again.

What were the challenges on your journey to ministry?
APOSTLE: Looking back now I can tell you, God was the one. Because I did not know anyone, I did not go to a bible school, I did not know the bible, but God began to teach me, Sunday after Sunday. When God calls you really, you don't need to be qualified; you don't need to know anything. If God calls you He will take the responsibility. If you asked me now, what I was preaching then, I couldn't tell you. And I was surprised that people were coming, when I didn't know anything.
(Laughs) Now that I know something, I don't even see the people (laughs). It is amazing. What were they coming to do? I met one woman; her husband is a very big man with the NDDC.She said I used to come to your church when we were at Oritshe. I said what! (Laughs). Everybody passed through that. And I did not know anything. I don't believe I do. But God was the one. And there wasn't anytime that I had an issue that I could not deal with.
So I did not need to run to anybody to tell me what to do. Even when I had people like the late Arch. Bishop Benson Idahosa, Dr. Ibeneme around me, but they hardly ever do anything for me. There was nothing to solve. All the problems that came God helped me to deal with them. So it was exciting, when I look back, I just know that it is God. God will really help when we have things at stake.

What informed the choice of the name Revival Assembly, and its pay off the New Anointing?
It was from one thing to the other. After I got the rent they were asking me, what is the name of the church, I said I don't know. At that time. I paid the rent with my name, they gave me a receipt in my name. And so I began to ask the lord, what name would I use." worship assembly", "Worship assembly"(Laughs). It was not very clear, it did not gel. There was this man of God, Bishop N.E. Moses .When I was in House hold of God, he used to drive by on Saturdays. One day he came looked at me and said, what kind of person are you, what does Okotie give you, you know that kind of thing. He told me later that he was in his bathroom and the Lord spoke to him, go and tell Anselm that his days with Okotie are over. I said God forbid, how can he tell me. And I was addicted to that place. So he rushed and told his wife. See what God told me, and that was it. So that evening, I drove to his church, he saw me, and said, ah, Anselm what are you doing here, I said I just came to fellowship. He said, now that I have seen you, let me tell you what happened. I told him I had left there. He said wow, God is wonderful. What do you want to do, I said I want to go to bible school. He said no! You cannot go to bible school. What God told me is now! What do I know, I don't know anything, I want to go and learn for one year. I wanted to dodge the call. Okay I have answered, let me go to bible school. He said no I don't think you should go to bible school, He said you have to start immediately.
What name would you use, I said I am looking at worship assembly, but it is not gelling. He suggested a name, I can't remember the first name he called, I ·said no. We called another name, I said no. He said Revival, I said yes! (Laughs).

I just wrote revival assembly. I wanted to write the vibrant church or the warfare church something like that, because that was how it came to me, that this is a militant place. A warfare place, prayer place So I got that name. That is how it came. But the new anointing was like a rain, I can't understand how it came, from nowhere, I just saw, the new anointing. The names just attached itself. It seems to be more popular than revival assembly. At times, if they ask people revival assembly, they don't know but when you say the new anointing, okay yes.

What was it like at the inception of the church?
I can tell you, the major challenge I had was with the people around me. I was in a hurry to give out positions, because I didn't know any better. You become this, you become that, you become pastor.
So people from different background, I know that if God calls you, you have to take time to work it out, but I just got people involved. Apparently some of them had other ideas about ministry. Some of them were there for the money. When they didn't see the money, they were looking for ways to edge me out and take over.
Those were the initial problems, which matured me. Which actually prepared me for the ministry because by then my mind was too open. I never knew somebody could be planning and playing games with God. It was then I saw believers ready to fight for money. So my main problem was the people around me. And God was almost like driving everybody around me at a time. So that is how it was.

Tell us about Oritshe encounter and how you were able to conquer the land?
When I went to enquire about the place, they said it was available that I should go and come back. When I now returned, the guy said to me, we are not going to give you this place. I said why, he said the owners said it is a big church. I said it is not a big church, we don't have, members (laughs). He said the noise will be too much and it will disturb the whole area, I said I don't have any member. So that was how I began to know that maybe this thing would at it be something. I noticed after I paid that the place had a problem. Because all the things that were around there died; primary school died, pharmaceutical company died, steel company died, shops died, two churches died, infact, when I got there, there was a pulpit and some benches we inherited. Because the church left it and went away.
So that was how I knew that there was something wrong with the place. One Mrs. Ibanga was living opposite the church, she said, when we came, she was laughing. We have been here, we have seen them come and go, this people will go (Laughs). Anyway that night we came to pray, myself, my
wife and few people then. We had an all night prayer, real prayer. We prayed so hard.
By the next morning, the family people that live behind the place, Olu called me, and said what did you do here last night?
I said we prayed. He said we have lived here for over 20 years. We have been under something, but last night that thing left. He took me to the front of the house. There was a tree there. He said look at the top of the tree, the top of the tree was cut! Whatsoever left, left with so much anger and fire that it cut off the top of the tree. He said ah welcome. For the first time, we have felt freedom. This is a sign that you guys are from God. So the church started, and the rest is history! So Mrs Ibanga came and joined us. (Laughs)

At what point in time did it occur to you that the ministry was due to move from its site at Oritshe?
Like I said, everything was guided. God was the one guiding me. I mean, I didn't have a mind of my own; things were just falling in place, it is time to buy land. At that time, we began to look for land. There was no land before we found this place.
Then we decided to raise money, the first trouble came. When they thought there was money, and they were not seeing the money, and then I was planning to do something and all the people that pledged refused to bring their money, you know the long story, how they broke away. That was my first experience of ministry but I thank God because what happened was that consciously I was depending on the people. As far as this people are in this church, I will build. That was how God taught me not to depend on people. Because all the people left, they actually said let us see how he will grow that church.
When we started this place, it was thirty thousand that was in the account. I remember it like it was yesterday.
I went and hired labourers, we did the layouts, dug it , just paying them day stuff. My wife had to sell some things to buy chairs, buy the paint and painted the whole place. We used my last money to pay rent, you know. And it was now who will dedicate the ministry and all that. I had oppositions from every angle, even from my friend under whom I served as deliverance minister.
So I went to Dr. Ibeneme. He said he believes it is God, and that he is going to stand with me. So that was how we had the first service 16th of December 1990.Dr. Ibeneme came. That was the day he ordained me. He also dedicated the ministry. That was how the church began. So he was my spiritual father, until he died.
You know. Just did the foundation. Bought some blocks. We then had the first service here on a Sunday. We had canopies and everything. When they came here, they saw the place has been dugged and we have laid the foundation. I poured the oil around the altar side, laid the first block and prayed and called on God to help us. That was how the thing took off. And thirteen months we were inside this place. Record time. December 1994, we had our first service here.
How it happened I did not just know. And that was the time of Abiola's crisis. People were not too sure whether they will stay in Lagos or travel.

What has been the impact of the soul, soul, soul and more soul vision of the ministry?
Indescribable! Indescribable! Indescribable! That is just my passIOn. And there is nothing that gladdens my heart than to receive a text message or phone call that I gave my life to Christ. From one village somewhere in Katsina, somewhere, wherever.

They have even transcribed it in Russia. It is being aired in Russia. It is just unbelievable. I trust Him to do even more.

When did you realize the place of your function as an apostle? And who is an apostle?
In 1995/1996, the late Archbishop Benson Idahosa wanted to make me a bishop. It did not sit in my spirit, infact he was calling me bishop. Lawrence Osagie, Osa ani, all of them have become bishop today. I felt in my spirit that it was not for me. I had to pull away from him because he was the strong man and we could not say no, with all the respect we had for him.
I was not interested in the title, I was satisfied being a pastor. Then later I began to hear prophecies. I am going to send you to the nations, I said no. I was happy doing my Sunday service. I was addicted to the people, to the church and they were addicted to me. You know. I never prayed to travel. I remembered the lord began to tell me "hey! this vision is bigger than here, it's not about here." When I made my first missionary trip, I went to one church and one church ended up being about five, six local churches. I went to this one church with a friend, I remember so well. Because that guy and I were in Household when I was the head of department of the deliverance department. One of my members went to America and told his pastor, I have a friend who you need in this church.

So the guy said let him come. That was how I took my first trip to America. When I finished in his church, he called another pastor and said I have a guy from Nigeria, you need him in your church, I went to that church, he called another person. And before I know, I was all over the place preaching. And I said, I didn't come to preach, I just came to see. Any way, I came back and they told me come back again. I did not plan for this.
Then I met Apostle John Eckadt in one of my trips, He was the first apostle I saw. I am like apostle? I knew that our meeting was for a purpose, we jelled, and we clicked. He had me preach in his church. He has a big church and all that. Then I began to then understand what was now happening, there was a paradigm shift taking place, translation from the pastoral, I have been pastoring for the past 5 to 6 years. I wanted to die a pastor. The Lord now began to tell me. Now I am sending you to the nations. Pastors sit down with congregation, teaches them the word. Apostle simply means a sent one. He said I am sending you to the nations, so stop fighting. It is I a transition, a translation, promotion, whatever you will call it. I was like, I am going to lose my church, I am going to lose everything. He said no, you are going to lose some people, but not the ministry. It was tough. Some people were like, you don't stay in church any more, and we are not coming to your church any more. (Laughs). It was serious. But I caught the revelation; I began to see the kingdom, and not the church, not Revival Assembly.
I was addicted to Revival Assembly, but God wanted me to be addicted to the kingdom, which is a bigger picture, and that was when the whole thing began to leave me and all the attachment to stay as pastor.
Then I now caught the vision of the world from the pulpit that you are not limited to one church. Some people are called to be pastors and they die as pastors, some people are called and they pastor for a while and from there, they move to something else.

What is the connection between Russia and America where your apostolic ministry first started?
It is amazing. I was in America, when John Eckadt called me and told me that he is having a conference in Ethiopia. He wanted me to come to Ethiopia and preach. I said wow. He said if you are coming please tell me, I want to send a ticket to you. And as God will have it, before I left Lagos I went to EthioPIan embassy and got their visa. So he sent me the ticket, i new from Maryland to Addis Ababa. I uid not know I was coming for the conference. But to show you how the mind works, r saw the advert in Charisma Magazine. It was Morris Cerullo, Robert Kayanja, Dr. Williams, all the big people. You know, my name wasn't there. So when John told me, I was like (Laughs) Why didn't you put my photograph there? You know.

But I thought I wasn't going to attend but my secretary then in America told me it doesn't matter, go. He (John Eckadt) said it escaped him.

Anyway I went to the place and preached. Now before then, God have told me that I would be sending you to Russia, but I don't know anybody in Russia. Why would I start Russia? I threw it away; I said that it is not the Lord! So I went to Ethiopia and I remembered, I preached on a Thursday night. I was preaching to this large crowd, I didn't know anybody there. When I finished preaching, I came back to my room, Sheraton Addis. I was just washing up, when I heard a knock on my door, when I opened the door I saw four white people. A man, his wife, and two other people, only one could speak English. Then the man spoke in their language, the other interpreted, I said come in, and they came in. The man said you don't know me and I said, I don't know you. And he said, we were at the service with you. I said okay wow!
We need what you have. I said who are we? Where? He said I live in Latvia. I said where is Latvia? Latvia is old Soviet, I said ah! I don't want to go there. (laughs). I am sorry. So they left. When they left, the Lord spoke to me, He said I sent them. So I went after them. I now sat with them at the lounge and said okay tell me about Latvia. They brought out some pictures, some brochure. This is Latvia; we have a conference every November. People come, why don't you come and speak to us? I said we don't have Latvia embassy in Nigeria so how can I even come here.

He said listen we are going back tomorrow, give us your passport details, when you get back to Washington, our embassy will give you visa. I gave them. I got back to Washington and I said let me check the embassy. I called the place and told them I am supposed to get visa from here. They asked for my name? Madubuko, he said hold on. Two hours later visa was on my passport.
I carne back, told my wife, I am going to Latvia. She said where is Latvia? I said I don't know where it is. She said, you are not afraid? I said no. So I flew first to Moscow, I didn't know my way. It is like London being in the middle, Latvia being behind it and Moscow being in front. So I flew to Moscow, before flying to Latvia, it took me two days. When I got there it was cold, snow everywhere. Terrible
place. I said hey! What am I doing here? Anyway, they carne and picked me up from the airport to the hotel. That evening, I prayed. As I was praying, I just knew that there was something more, this is destiny. It was not just a visit. It was clear to me that this is what the Lord wants. But I did not go there with the hope of going back. I walked into this hall and I see about eight thousand people all whites no black. The only black man there was Sunday Adelaja. I have never met him before, I didn't know who he was. Wow! And I preached and God confirmed the word, with so much power, so much manifestations, healings, deliverance that was it.
The man said this is it; you are corning back in July (laughs). And since that day in 1999 of November that was it. I will go in July, November, July, and November. Then from there, other countries opened up. Then Ukraine, there and then Sunday Adelaja, invited me to be in His convention in February 2000. I was there, from there, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland then Russian churches in America. Russian churches in London. So that is how it's been. It is getting more and more serious. I am traveling to attend conferences in major cities in Ukraine, in Russia.
Now Russia is like a continent, you have to know that to fly across one end of Russia to the other takes 14 hours. There are 11 different time zones in Russia. There is a place I go to at the border of China; it is an 8-hour flight from Moscow. From there you are looking into China. And it is amazing how this people are picking this gospel and running with it. Cd's, books, etc.

What informed souls souls more souls vision of the ministry?
That soul thing was not on my mind; I was finding it difficult to even pay for the little stations we are on. I was going to Kenya on a Sunday. It was up there 35 thousand feet, I was just thinking about what I was going to do in Kenya, and the Lord began to speak to me about it. "I want a programme on air that is about souls, not about the church. About Jesus, about hell, start with A.LT. I said A.LT is a lot of money. Anyway. I want you to do it for five years I am going to bless those that will support you," etc.
So I shared it. And it was like wow! This is amazing, I never thought of it. Just fifteen minutes and then I came back and was excited because I like souls, but I did not know how to go beyond what I was doing. And when I came back and sold the idea to the people and gladly they bought it and that is how it started.

How did you come to the present structure of the ministry where you can travel long time away, without virtually noticing your absence within the rank and file of the ministry.
It is God, because like I said, there is always a price to pay for obedience. If I am not traveling, I am sure, we would have been much bigger than the way we are. But like I said, I looked at the bigger picture; I know that at the end of the day. God will grow the church, the way he wants it to be. So I would have lost nothing. But the important thing is that I was able to obey. And God also brought some good people around me you know. Who did not take advantage of my being absent to rape the church. So I give God the glory for this for the fact that He sent me out, I did not choose to go out. He made it bearable.
Because some people ask me, we don't understand how that church is still there. So pastor tell me, if I live my church for two weeks it is gone. (Laughs)
Even bishop Oyedepo anytime he sees me, he says you are an Apostle .He says sit down and do the work. I said my work is not here my work is out there. And God gives me the grace. It is amazing. When I look at the programme I run. The last time I was in Ukraine, I had 23 services in two weeks in eight cities.

I preached 23 different messages, because the churches co-operate, they exchange tapes. You know, it is only God that can do that. At times I will preach, after preaching we eat, and then drive all night, six hours to another city. Then we get to the city at about 7 -8am. I rest for evening preaching, we move again. You find that you come out, nobody knows the kind of pressure you have been through. Part of the thing that comes with the calling of the Apostle, is the supernatural ability and strength. I can preach everyday I mean, I just came back from Port Harcourt yesterday. After service at times I will fly out, preach all week, come back Saturday, strong. I don't feel jetlag, I don't feel anything, it is just the Lord. When He calls you, He equips you. And I was talking with Bishop Ojo he said Apostle, you know, you and archbishop, you have the same anointing. I said why? He said the bible says (he was the one that taught me that scripture) that God anointed Jesus Christ of Nazareth, with the Holy Ghost and with power, He went about" he said there is an anointing for going about. (Laughs) It's true. If you don't have the anointing for going about, you can't do it. People will see you and they will think you are sick.

What led to the birth of Azusa con{erence and praise concert in Revival Assembly Church. Lagos, Nigeria?
(Laughs) it is about Revival. My heart beat is to see the church, not the way it is .I want to see the church; people rushing to church. People coming to church with expectation. With enthusiasm. With Love. People coming to church knowing that we are coming to meet with the King of kings. This thing about revival, the church in Nigeria, is backsliding. We are just doing convenient Christianity. Nobody wants to pay any price. People want short service. People want things easy. And that is not what God wants. And then the thought of Azusa came to my mind. Something that will keep the people in check, in tune, something they need. And that was how Azusa came.

It is like a stopgap. Something we are going to be using until the main thing comes. It is always a different spirit. Azusa is a different spirit. Azusa is not like anniversary. It is a different spirit. That is what God is showing us, just a little of how it is going to be. A time we are going to be having service everyday. Pack people, pray in, and move in, in God's power, it is coming. Azusa will become an everyday thing.

What is your take with the way we practice Christianity in Nigeria and other parts of the world, you are privileged to travel.
I thank God that He sent me to Eastern Europe. They are hungry. They are the way we were in the late seventies and early eighties. Call a meeting by nine am on a Thursday, on a Tuesday or any day, there is no difference between Sunday or Saturday and Thursday. It is cold, people are outside in the cold.

You know Russia is cold. The weather is cold, the whole hall is full they have to open the windows in winter. They are hungry. Any word you speak, it is like from heaven. So Nigeria is not in a good shape at all.

What is your impression about life of holiness amongst today's Christians, and how can we engraft it into the body of Christ?
I believe it will. It might not catch up with everybody at the same time. But as God is, He has a way of going to people. God deals with people. He uses the word. It is catching up. Because people are now seeing that there is no point. It is better we do this thing or we don't, what is the point playing about and then come back. It will get to a time, you will get tired of this normal thing, you want to go the extra mile for God. Most people are not there yet. That is why when you begin to major on that, people tend to run away because they want to hear what excite them. People want to hear about being blessed and prosperity, especially the young Christians. But after a while, they will understand that God want us not to visit the top, He wants us to stay on top. And we can't stay on top in unrighteousness.
When this revelation begins to come to people, one by one, people will begin to change. It is catching up, but not as a sweep. Not everybody is going to stand up and God can do it sometimes. In those days when Charles Spurgeon walks into a place, everybody will be converted, it was mass revival, it was mass conversion. When revival hit a city, it goes beyond the church. People outside the church will know that some thing has happened.
That is why I believe the Lord is trying to wash us, trying to get us to a point of sanctification and really dying to self, knowing that we cannot live in sin.We still serve God as if every thing is okay.
It is time to major on the main issue. And to me that is the most important thing. You know pastors don't like to preach it. But I have come to a stage where I don't preach what people want to hear, because I am not looking for where to preach, so why should I compromise.

What were your most embarrassing moments on your many trips?
(laughs) I was going to Maryland from Florida. At first they kept postponing the flight and eventually after five, six hours delay; they said we should board the plane. As the plane was about to take off, we lost a tyre, and pilots say when a plane is ready to take off, you can't stop. But just before we took off, we heard a loud noise gboa! As God will have it, the man did not take off, because ifhe had taken off, how would he have landed without tyres.
They said again that when a plane stops suddenly, because the fuel is light, it can spark and explode. So we stayed in the middle of the tarmac and all these ambulances came over, pouring water on the plane. That was my first time of seeing that kind of thing.
Then on my way back, we were delayed, as we took off, we noticed that the thing took off in a funny way, it was shaking and shaking. Then suddenly we felt that the plane was coming down.
The pilot didn't want to say anything. He now said, ladies and gentlemen, we have to go back to the airport, it was like the longest thirty minutes. We were over water; nobody knew what was happening anyway. It looked as if it will drop at anytime so the thing managed and landed. Some people came out and ran away. (Laughs) But I had to leave, they said we should wait, we waited and we were now transferred to another plane. It was the same pilot. He said ladies and gentlemen, you can trust that this baby is good.

Another one, I was going to Latvia. You know the normal thing, you have left Nigeria. This is London, a safe place. There are no thieves here, so I left Nigeria through all night. By the time I got to London, I was tired and I was holding my passport and some money on me. But I was too tired to hold anything on me.
So I pulled out everything and put them in my brief case, got a roller, put my luggage on top of the roller, put my brief case on top of my luggage and threw my coat all over it.

I was now wheeling out. My friend Damian was supposed to pick me up and I did not see him. I picked up my cell phone to call Damian. One man walked to me and said, is there camera on your phone? As I was trying to say yes and that was it. When I finished making the calls I put my phone down and behold my brief case was gone. My visas, money, my passport. Hey! Every thing was gone. I hadjust gone to buy ticket from London to Wigan; it was my way down that the whole thing happened. So I said let me quickly go and get back my money that I am not going to Wigan again. That is the only money I will have on me. About 300 and something pounds. I told them I just lost my passport and visa, can you refund me? They said we don't refund. I said, please.
The guy looked at me with pity. I now sat back and said so it is possible for this kind of thing to happen in London? (Laughs)
I went to the police station; they told me they took seven brief cases. There was a big racketing in Britain. I went to the Nigerian embassy and there was a holiday. I came back to Nigeria, started working again to get my visa. Thank God; I got

How do you relax?
I watch Arsenal and Manchest United. Wikki tourist (laughs) I am not a 1. person. Just skipping channels, my wife will s~ please let's watch one. (Laughs)

How do you combine ministry with family life?
I must tell you the truth; I thank Gc for my wife. I am not under pressure. I have lli given enough time to my family, I must tell yc this. I miss my kids, they miss me because the growing years were the times I began to be aW2 from them so I did not really play my role as would have loved to. But thank God he has bef able to help us in that area. The family is vel important, and it is very important to maintain balance. People like us will always up turn it b putting ministry before family. But it gets to stage, you know you are living for the ministr: you are living for God. And you need to have good wife or a good husband as the case may be 1
be allowed to fulfill that.
So I always tell people, please man people not necessarily people yo love or love you, but people that wi understand that God is first befm
family. God is a God of family ye: but He will not like your family t stand in-between the call of GO(
F or instance God sends me to Ukraine, go and do crusade and I say my wife will not be happy if! g( I mean that is not a good testimony. So I believ both are important, but for me, people should be i an atmosphere where they are encouraged to d ministry.
But: I have come 1:0 os.ge where I don't p~h whot people "aotto hear~ because I amnotlookiog for Where to preach~so why should I compromise.

all my visas back, but that was a terrible experience. You know on that trip, one man heard I had a problem; the man gave me a thousand pounds just like that. Somebody called him and said pastor Anselm has a problem at the airport, they took all his documents.
The man called me to know where I was. He met me and gave me a thousand pounds. It's just amazing how God cushioned the effect.
TGF: Which of your books, do you consider more Javourite?
APOSTLE: "Overcoming Stagnation" (laughs) I like that one, but the one that has done well even outside of here is this new one. "Developing the spirit of Prayer". They just sent me a message from South Africa, they need more. We don't have any more copies left. We are trying to reproduce.

What is your favourite dish?
Dodo! (Laughs) one doctor told m he doesn't eat dodo, I said go and sit down. M father ate dodo before he died.