You have this monthly programme for the youths. What informs it and how far has it succeeded?
The youth programme has been a revolution and that is the only way I can describe it. From the inception of the church in 1990 here in Lagos , we've always tried to have a special place for the youth and we started by calling them the firebrand, because we know that they are full of energy. We have different groups in the church such as the married men, married women, youth and others. But some couple of years ago, the Lord began to open our understanding to realise that if the youth are the messages we are sending to the future, if they are the future leaders, why should we sideline them in the church? Why can't we make them our priority in the church? So we realised that we cannot just put them aside and leave them at that level. So we brought this youth programme and made it the priority, the main focus for the church. It is a paradigm, we change their perspective, we change their mentality and their attitude and we realise that the youths, from 13 to about 30 years, are the ones doing everything that is happening in the world today, whether positive or negative. In the world of entertainment, music, sport and in many other disciplines, they are the active players. What the elders do is just to coach them.
So, we began to realise that the church should not be left out. I must say to you that this is one of the most successful decisions we have taken. The youth are like a nation within a nation. They have their own culture, language, dressing and music. You have to study this and adapt to it and not force them to change their culture. You then release the gospel into that culture. This is one of the reasons why some churches, particularly in the western world, are increasingly losing their youths and it's only the elderly ones you can find in the churches in Europe these days. So, what we do during this programme is to open the church for them and allow them to come and fully express themselves and in the process, you put or inculcate the value of Christ into them. That has been a huge success for us here.
Every week, we have a special youth service. This comes up every Tuesday, during which they have their own time together in the evenings. This is exclusively to them although very rowdy, noisy, but we are getting them for Christ. Then every month, we have what is called the Hero's Sunday. They take over all the aspects of the service that Sunday. They do the talking, they have their choir, they do their dancing. It is exciting and interesting and at the end of it, we bring a celebrity, a role model in the society. Such a celebrity could be from politics - as we had Dr. Tunji Braithwaite during the last programme - from governance, entertainment, sports and so on as a role model for them. This person will be interviewed by the youths. He or she will give them hope, point the way forward to them. So, the programme has been a huge success for us, although it is demanding and expensive, but we owe our youth whatever can develop them in Christ and at whatever cost to us. It is a worthy investment.
If you don't invest in the youth, you don't have a future. If our present leaders were affected by programmes like this, if they had the right values as youths, if they were modelled in a way to fear God, maybe we would not be where we are today.
You have said that Pastor Bakare is your role model. What attracts him to you?
Pastor Tunde Bakare, to me, is a man of God that still needs to be discovered and understood by the majority of the people in this nation. Apart from seeing him on television, perhaps, only very few people know him. In relating closely with him, I develop a saying that proximity brings clarity. The closer you get, the clearer you see. One of the things that impresses me about him is that, when you get close to him, you discover a real human being; you discover what is called real integrity that no amount of money or anything can purchase. In him, you will discover sacrificial commitment and faithfulness to relationship. From a human point of observation, I watched him for years and I got closer to him and discovered these rare traits in him. Much more than this, I believe that there is a divine ordination for our connection. Our destinies are intertwined. For me, he is a source of inspiration. The more I know him, the more I appreciate him. I know him by revelation. We travel together. I know what most people don't know about him.
Some of his prophecies, particularly concerning former President Olusegun Obasanjo, were baffling. He also said we wouldn't have this new government until October, this year. What can you say of these since you know him that closely?
One of the interesting things about him is that, when you are in doubt about anything he says, ask questions. Even to his congregation, he encourages them to ask him questions if they at loss over anything he says or do. So, when it comes to the issue of prophecy, the first thing people need to understand is the nature of prophecy and the purpose of prophecy.
The nature of prophecy is so complex that it is not just two plus two equals to four. For instance, there are prophecies in the Bible, that have not been fulfilled till today. They have lasted for thousands of years. That does not make the prophets that gave those prophecies to be fake. There are prophecies in the Bible that those who gave them do not even understand them. So, the nature of prophecy is complex and not as simple and many people would want to say or that if a prophecy is given today and it does not come to pass tomorrow, it has become invalid or the person who gave the prophecy is a fake one. That is far from the truth.
Most of the time, God can use the prophets to raise an alarm. Like Jonah went to Nineveh and said in three days, the people would be wiped out. That prophecy drove them with fear to repent. The Bible says that even their dogs fasted!
When Pastor Bakare began to prophesy about the past Obasanjo administration, that was one voice that caused trembling. That prophecy kept Obasanjo on his toes and people rallied round to pray for him and so on. Bakare did not say surely this prophecy must come to pass. He simply said the mind of God, as revealed to him and he cannot tamper with such a revelation. His own was to say it and his duty stops at that. If such a prophecy comes and people repent, even God will have mercy and take his anger away.
I certainly do not have problem with Pastor Bakare and his prophecies. He is a man of God with enormous integrity and sincerity.
Considering our situation in this country, can a Christian go into politics and still come out the same person?
My brother, this is the one million dollar question. Yes, with God, all things are possible. But for man, it may look impossible. For a Christian to go into politics and come back with his integrity intact, we have to start with the foundation, that is, his spiritual foundation and spiritual orientation. How rooted is he in the things of God? To what extent does he carry the fear of God with him? How separated is he from the system? Jesus said, you are the salt of the earth. A salt that is applied to where there is decadence, it will clear the rot in the system. It will prevent corruption. The question is, what is the motivation for going into politics? Unfortunately, a lot of people hastily jump into politics without understanding the terrain. A lot of people are na?ve about it.
You hear a pastor or a Christian saying 'God says I'm going to be governor. I'm going to be President'. But ask what is their pedigree? Where have they been tested? How much of the situation do they understand? So, many Christians that go into politics in the name of God do not even understand it. Also, they don't understand the principle of the life of Christ. Christ started from the scratch. Despite the prediction that government would be upon his soldier, Christ started from the beginning. He did not just rise and say, today, I'm becoming President. Despite these limitations, Christians should and must be involved in politics because God is involved. How do we start? How do we get involved? These are the questions we must first answer.
Some of your members will be going to Manila , Philippines next month. Is that the new Jerusalem?
Ah, far from being. When people say they go on pilgrimage, that adds nothing to your rating before God. God is no more present anywhere than where you are. You can have your Jerusalem anywhere you are. So, what is happening is that, we have many of our people going for a conference in Manila . Our church is part of a global body called Every Nation Family of Churches. It is an amalgamation of gospel ministries from about 50 countries of the world. We come together once in three years for interactions and celebrations. This conference is one of them. As many of our people that can go, we are encouraging them to go. That is what is happening in Manila in Philippines in July. It would be an opportunity for us to showcase the richness of our culture. We will do our own indigenous way of praising God in dancing and singing.
What is this organisation about?
It is made up of about 500 churches world-wide and the things that bind us together are the core Christian values, that we share. Every nation must be reached with the gospel of Christ and be transformed by the message of hope that Christ preached. Our mission is to do evangelism, grass-root evangelism, church planting, youth ministry, cross-cultural mission and so on. These are the things we do and promote. In the organisation, you must believe in the Lordship of Jesus before you can be part of it. Also, we are deeply involved in discipleship for Christ, people who give their lives to Christ must be taught the ways of Christ. It is not just enough to raise your hands up and say you have received Christ into your life. You must be discipled for him. We also train people to be leaders in all aspects of life. I'm privileged to be one of the leaders in that body.
Are you attracted to this body because of the foreign funds, like some churches do?
This is a valid question and I'm happy you asked me that. Yes, what is there for us? You see, when people see that you are connected to a foreign body or an international agency and you are deeply involved for that matter, they believe it translates to dollars. But we believe in the wealth of value rather than the value of wealth. Our joining this body was not motivated by any material consideration. As a matter of fact, there has never been any financial support from them to this church, because we didn't join because we are financially incapable. We are well established, well consolidated. This auditorium was build and fully paid for by our people here. So, we are not there for any financial gain. You cannot be beggarly and be authoritative. Rather, we spent to ensure our dreams and goals are fulfilled in that body. That is why we are well respected there. |